Hello,
We really need some help. We sold our old car, 3 days later it was involved in a bus lane contravention.
We are a low income family with health/mental health issues. We made representaions to the council but they are insisting the car was ours. We showed proof of insurance change over to our new car (which ironically we had to pay a bus lane pcn oxford rd), All the ads for the sale of car etc.
The DVLA said they did not recieve the changeover documents in time so its a little hard to prove the car was not ours.
So now we have marstons haunting us for a total of £408, if it was our pcn we would pay.
our car is really only the only thing we have an thats not even worth much! Its used to Transport us around because we can not use public transport, I am not allowed a licence due to my mental health. Blue badge applied for under new criteria.
I have declared our vunerable position to Marstons/ the council, but they are ignoring it.
Now our Anxiety levels are through the roof, barely sleeping worried sick about this.
Oh yes the PCN is over 1 year old, due to difficult home circumstances it did nt get dealt with and we are now in this mess with marstons.
Thank you for reading, sorry about the grammer/spellings. Any advice greatly apprciated
D2303.
Man City council/ marstons/ bus lane pcn.
Re: Man City council/ marstons/ bus lane pcn.
I wouldn’t get concerned about proving that you are in a vulnerable household at this stage. You can play that card later if needed, but it only gets you off the bailiff's fees, but not the PCN itself.
A bus lane contravention is appealed by completing a form PE2 a late statutory declaration, and a form PE3 to challenge a PCN.
Both forms are available by download from the HM Court Service website.
They need to be notarised by a solicitor, the fee is about £5 so take a photo ID with you.
On the form PE3 under Location of the contravention, you say UNKNOWN - top right of the form and add the date of contravention. Remember this must be the date AFTER you sold the car.
You tick the 2nd option - You made representations about the penalty charge notice to the local authority…
Under your reasons, you state:
I sold the car on [DATE] and notified the DVLA but the contravention occurred on [DATE] which is [NUMBER OF DAYS] after I sold the car, therefore my reasons are that I was neither the owner nor the keeper of the vehicle on the contravention date. To assist the court determine my reasons I attach evidence of the date I sold the car.
You MUST attach evidence of selling the car, any receipts, and flow of money relating to the transfer of the car giving the DATE OF SALE -which must be BEFORE the contravention date on the forms under - Date of Contravention. That way, if your grounds are rejected, you can take it higher because you supported your grounds with evidence.
You also complete a PE2 late appeal, again, under Location of the contravention, you say UNKNOWN - top right of the form and add the date of contravention. Remember this must be a date AFTER you sold the car. Then i,n the box - My reasons for filing outside the given time… enter your reasons:
I made representations to the authority on [DATE] but [GIVE YOUR REASONS HERE].
Here is how to file your PE2 and PE3 forms: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Ap ... liffs.html you email them to tec@hmcrs.gsi.gov.uk
As soon as you have your blue badge, you must display it on the dashboard of your new car at all times, even when you are not using it. That stops bailiffs taking or clamping it.
If the above forms do not stop the enforcement or are rejected by the Traffic Enforcement Centre, then post back and I’ll give you other options.
A bus lane contravention is appealed by completing a form PE2 a late statutory declaration, and a form PE3 to challenge a PCN.
Both forms are available by download from the HM Court Service website.
They need to be notarised by a solicitor, the fee is about £5 so take a photo ID with you.
On the form PE3 under Location of the contravention, you say UNKNOWN - top right of the form and add the date of contravention. Remember this must be the date AFTER you sold the car.
You tick the 2nd option - You made representations about the penalty charge notice to the local authority…
Under your reasons, you state:
I sold the car on [DATE] and notified the DVLA but the contravention occurred on [DATE] which is [NUMBER OF DAYS] after I sold the car, therefore my reasons are that I was neither the owner nor the keeper of the vehicle on the contravention date. To assist the court determine my reasons I attach evidence of the date I sold the car.
You MUST attach evidence of selling the car, any receipts, and flow of money relating to the transfer of the car giving the DATE OF SALE -which must be BEFORE the contravention date on the forms under - Date of Contravention. That way, if your grounds are rejected, you can take it higher because you supported your grounds with evidence.
You also complete a PE2 late appeal, again, under Location of the contravention, you say UNKNOWN - top right of the form and add the date of contravention. Remember this must be a date AFTER you sold the car. Then i,n the box - My reasons for filing outside the given time… enter your reasons:
I made representations to the authority on [DATE] but [GIVE YOUR REASONS HERE].
Here is how to file your PE2 and PE3 forms: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Ap ... liffs.html you email them to tec@hmcrs.gsi.gov.uk
As soon as you have your blue badge, you must display it on the dashboard of your new car at all times, even when you are not using it. That stops bailiffs taking or clamping it.
If the above forms do not stop the enforcement or are rejected by the Traffic Enforcement Centre, then post back and I’ll give you other options.
Re: Man City council/ marstons/ bus lane pcn.
Thank you for your reply, could i ask the council for the cctv/images of the the PCN?
Thanks for your help with the forms, i have them and will fill them out and sent asap,
One last question, The registerd keeper of a car is not nesscerily the owner?
or will bailiffs not take this into account?
say if i bought the vehicle for my partner to drive me where i need to be, used my money, have hand written bill of sale( made out to me), bank reciepts(on day of buying), and the seller could verify that i bought from him, would this be enough to prove ownership?
Again Thanks D2303
Thanks for your help with the forms, i have them and will fill them out and sent asap,
One last question, The registerd keeper of a car is not nesscerily the owner?
or will bailiffs not take this into account?
say if i bought the vehicle for my partner to drive me where i need to be, used my money, have hand written bill of sale( made out to me), bank reciepts(on day of buying), and the seller could verify that i bought from him, would this be enough to prove ownership?
Again Thanks D2303
Re: Man City council/ marstons/ bus lane pcn.
You can ask for the evidence of the contravention, but your reasons are nothing to do with whether you were the driver.
The keeper is not necessarily the owner. Unlike America and the Far East, where cars have a driver certificate and a title document, the UK does not issue title documents for road vehicles, so the bailiff will take no notice of the distinction between the owner and a driver (keeper in the UK) unless an interpleader claim is made.
If you owned the vehicle bought with your money and your partner is the keeper and driver, then it would be difficult to distinguish who is the owner given the high burden of proof needed to make an interpleader claim. You would be better to be the keeper and owner, and your partner is a driver, and if you get a PCN then you just name the driver.
The keeper is not necessarily the owner. Unlike America and the Far East, where cars have a driver certificate and a title document, the UK does not issue title documents for road vehicles, so the bailiff will take no notice of the distinction between the owner and a driver (keeper in the UK) unless an interpleader claim is made.
If you owned the vehicle bought with your money and your partner is the keeper and driver, then it would be difficult to distinguish who is the owner given the high burden of proof needed to make an interpleader claim. You would be better to be the keeper and owner, and your partner is a driver, and if you get a PCN then you just name the driver.
Re: Man City council/ marstons/ bus lane pcn.
Ahh!!!!! pointless so, ok thank you so much for your time and help. I will let you know how the situation develops.
Would it not be proof that it was not us in the car that day? or is it just simply not admissable so to speak?
Thank you . D2303
Would it not be proof that it was not us in the car that day? or is it just simply not admissable so to speak?
Thank you . D2303
Re: Man City council/ marstons/ bus lane pcn.
the cctv images that is, could it not be used to say we were not in the car?
Re: Man City council/ marstons/ bus lane pcn.
No, because you can prove you were not in the car from the date of the sale documents and evidence of the flow of money from the buyer.
Re: Man City council/ marstons/ bus lane pcn.
The problem here is, it was a cash sale (scrap price really), The v5(logbook?) was sent to dvla but it got "delayed" in the post. The details they gave turned out to be false, (2 Romainian gents), So really it looks bad for me!!!!!
so should i request the images from the pcn?
thank you for your time and help. D2303
so should i request the images from the pcn?
thank you for your time and help. D2303
Re: Man City council/ marstons/ bus lane pcn.
Hello,
Last night i checked the history of the car involved in the contravention, it shows the mot ran out 1/07/19, 1 year after i sold it.
I sold it as spares and repairs, but the history is showing it was taken to an mot centre and passed on 02/07/18 (day of sale). They have been using it for a year.
Should i report this when sending Pe2 Pe3 back to the court?
Or should i approach Man council about this (original creditor)?
Surely they can find out where and by whom it was Mot'd.
Again thanks for your time. D2303.
Last night i checked the history of the car involved in the contravention, it shows the mot ran out 1/07/19, 1 year after i sold it.
I sold it as spares and repairs, but the history is showing it was taken to an mot centre and passed on 02/07/18 (day of sale). They have been using it for a year.
Should i report this when sending Pe2 Pe3 back to the court?
Or should i approach Man council about this (original creditor)?
Surely they can find out where and by whom it was Mot'd.
Again thanks for your time. D2303.