A had a craig fishwick from dcbl attend my property last february 2020, he put his foot in the door so i could not shut it, and threatened me by saying he would call the police as I asked him to remove his foot and that I would be arrested for assault if i tried closing the door, shorty story, he did ring the police and they attended, I then let him and the police into my property and he told me that he wanted £1000.00 there and then for an outstanding debt (which i know it was mine that i owed) he listed some items on a separate piece of paper (that's if you can read most of it that he has listed) and said that I would have a choice : either pay the £1000.00 now or he would take my goods, i agreed and paid him £1000.00 on my credit card and he gave me a reciept for this, this was the only visit to my property, the judgement debt was for £2724.00. He told me i would have to pay £500 each month until it was cleared on the 24th of each month, i told him i could not afford that amount, so he wrote on my copy that he gave to me "£500 subject to approval", then he went.
The next month I was so worried as I did not hear back from him, i rang dcbl and asked if i could pay £200 each month and they told me yes that's fine
dcbl are charging me the following fees for the debt:
debt £2724.00
Interest £11.97
compliance fee £90
enforcement stage fee £978.00
sale stage fee £786.00
total £4590.00
within the total is vat they have charged me at £309.00
I spoke to citzens advise about dcbl fees and according to them they should have only charged compliance and stage 1 fees and no VAT at all!
I sent dcbl a letter regarding the overcharge of fees, stating that they could not charge me enforcement stage 2 fees of £495 and stage 3 sale fees of £525, as i made a payment on the day he came and agreed to pay monthly instalments with them. And no items were removed for sale!
Dcbl replied saying that they were within there rights to charge all fees on the first visit as No payment was made and that I did not pay it all off in full on that day ( which i paid £1000.00 which I have the receipt for) and I also stated that they can charge vat! Which i am still confused about on this, as the claimant which I owe the debt to is verastar ltd and are VAT registered, So i need some further advise if anyone can help me please
DCBL High court enforcement fees
Re: DCBL High court enforcement fees
The only way to go with this is to apply for a detailed assessment. That is an application to a High Court cost judge to scrutinise the bailiffs fees and charges.
That will suspend the enforcement power, pending the outcome of the detailed assessment. You must exhibit a DCBL document that admits to charging both enforcement stage fees and VAT.
There is case law that you can give that shows that the 2nd enforcement stage fee, and the VAT on enforcement fees may not be recovered from debtors.
There is no relationship between debtors and bailiffs that give rise to a VAT liability.
When you have completed the detailed assessment, you apply for your costs, and that can be set off the judgment. The creditor is liable for your costs, but the bailiff has insurance that pays it.
Then apply for a stay of execution, and vary the judgment.
That again suspends the enforcement, and this time, it cancels all the fees because the original judgment is being varied.
You only pay the monthly repayment set by the order. You only pay the judgment, less any set off from ant money already taken by DCBL and any costs order awarded for your detailed assessment application under Civil Procedure Rule (CPR) 84,16.
I would make the draft order for the debt to be repaid at 100 a month, and the court will just seal the draft order.
That takes the bailiff out of the loop permanently, and any money already taken is set off against the original judgment and all the bailiffs fees are cancelled.
I would not waste your time trying to engage with DCBL. They will mess you about, and will swindle you with their fees. Just get the writ stopped asap. Its the only way to be sure.
That will suspend the enforcement power, pending the outcome of the detailed assessment. You must exhibit a DCBL document that admits to charging both enforcement stage fees and VAT.
There is case law that you can give that shows that the 2nd enforcement stage fee, and the VAT on enforcement fees may not be recovered from debtors.
There is no relationship between debtors and bailiffs that give rise to a VAT liability.
When you have completed the detailed assessment, you apply for your costs, and that can be set off the judgment. The creditor is liable for your costs, but the bailiff has insurance that pays it.
Then apply for a stay of execution, and vary the judgment.
That again suspends the enforcement, and this time, it cancels all the fees because the original judgment is being varied.
You only pay the monthly repayment set by the order. You only pay the judgment, less any set off from ant money already taken by DCBL and any costs order awarded for your detailed assessment application under Civil Procedure Rule (CPR) 84,16.
I would make the draft order for the debt to be repaid at 100 a month, and the court will just seal the draft order.
That takes the bailiff out of the loop permanently, and any money already taken is set off against the original judgment and all the bailiffs fees are cancelled.
I would not waste your time trying to engage with DCBL. They will mess you about, and will swindle you with their fees. Just get the writ stopped asap. Its the only way to be sure.
Re: DCBL High court enforcement fees
Hi zeke, thank you for your swift response,
just a few queries I have if you can advise please.
The judgement was for £2724.00,
I have now paid DCBL £3200.00 to date and due again on the 25th of this month of another £200,
So if I only should have been charged the following:
Compliance fee £75
Stage 1 fee £190
plus interest of 8%
this means that I have over payed them already yes?
so my questions are
is that I would not need a stay of execution and vary the judgement as DCBL would owe me ?
Also I am on low income, so do I apply for the detailed assessment and then apply for help with the costs? and what about solicitor costs too as i presume they would act in court on my behalf?
sorry ive never done anything like this before as I tried speaking to stepchange and they were not very helpful regarding bailiff fees etc.
Thanks for your help
just a few queries I have if you can advise please.
The judgement was for £2724.00,
I have now paid DCBL £3200.00 to date and due again on the 25th of this month of another £200,
So if I only should have been charged the following:
Compliance fee £75
Stage 1 fee £190
plus interest of 8%
this means that I have over payed them already yes?
so my questions are
is that I would not need a stay of execution and vary the judgement as DCBL would owe me ?
Also I am on low income, so do I apply for the detailed assessment and then apply for help with the costs? and what about solicitor costs too as i presume they would act in court on my behalf?
sorry ive never done anything like this before as I tried speaking to stepchange and they were not very helpful regarding bailiff fees etc.
Thanks for your help
Re: DCBL High court enforcement fees
StepChange isnt set up for bailiff advice. They are there to sell debt manage plans and debt counseling services.
If you have been charged VAT, then you can apply for a detailed assessment.
You don't normally need to pay the solicitor because they recover their fees from the creditor, who then sorts it out with DCBL. You never need to attend court because the solicitor represents you.
Once the detailed assessment application is considered, the enforcement power ends, and all fees are revoked until further order by the court. That would leave you having over paid by £476.
If you applies for a stay of execution and a variation, then that would suspend the enforcement power until you have discharged the varied payments, but since you have already paid the judgment debt, you have overpaid by £476 and that ends the enforcement power permanently, leaving you with a claim for the return of £476.
I can do a more precise detailed assessment if you can say the judgment date, and a list of dates and amounts the money has been taken.
If you have been charged VAT, then you can apply for a detailed assessment.
You don't normally need to pay the solicitor because they recover their fees from the creditor, who then sorts it out with DCBL. You never need to attend court because the solicitor represents you.
Once the detailed assessment application is considered, the enforcement power ends, and all fees are revoked until further order by the court. That would leave you having over paid by £476.
If you applies for a stay of execution and a variation, then that would suspend the enforcement power until you have discharged the varied payments, but since you have already paid the judgment debt, you have overpaid by £476 and that ends the enforcement power permanently, leaving you with a claim for the return of £476.
I can do a more precise detailed assessment if you can say the judgment date, and a list of dates and amounts the money has been taken.
Re: DCBL High court enforcement fees
Hi zeke thanks for your response
the judgement date was on the 29th January 2020
the enforcement officer ( craig fishwick) attended on the 24th february which i paid £1000.00 on that day
Then I paid dcbl direct by bank transfer £200 each month on the 20th of each month (march 2020 - January 2021= £2200.00) so I have paid them £3200.00 in total?
the judgement date was on the 29th January 2020
the enforcement officer ( craig fishwick) attended on the 24th february which i paid £1000.00 on that day
Then I paid dcbl direct by bank transfer £200 each month on the 20th of each month (march 2020 - January 2021= £2200.00) so I have paid them £3200.00 in total?
Re: DCBL High court enforcement fees
Hi
I thought I would update some success on my case with dcbl with there fees and reference to the VAT which has been some concern.
DCBL tried adding further sale stage fee to my account, I queried this with them and they told me that even though goods are not removed for sale they can still charge the sale stage fee as per the regulations. I got straight onto a solicitor to confirm this, and this is totally incorrect, so i re-emailed dcbl telling them either to remove that fee as I had spoken to a solicitor regarding this and would take legal action against them if they did not. After a couple of emails back and throw they emailed me back saying that they would remove that fee! So a success of £525 + vat removed (without going for a detailed assessment!)
I had also queried the VAT and they advised that they can charge VAT on the fees, I still was not happy with it and I contacted my local MP
(him being one of the 650 law makers in parliament) here is the response i got back from him:
"In essence, the law says debtors pay the statutory enforcement fees, but the supply of services is to the creditor. A VAT registered creditor reclaims the VAT, otherwise the VAT is a disbursement to the creditor and the debtor pays it.
‘Judgment debtors pay the cost of sheriffs’ enforcement fees, the supplies are always to the creditors. VAT invoices for the services must be addressed and sent to the creditors. Any documents issued to debtors should make it clear that they are not VAT invoices.’
*****Thus VAT is only payable by debtors (you) when the creditor is NOT VAT registered*********
Otherwise creditors reclaim the VAT as input tax.
You can find out whether a creditor is VAT registered by searching online (https://vat-search.co.uk/).
In my case the creditor is VAT registered and DCBL are incorrect on saying that they can charge VAT!
If the company is NOT VAT registered then they can charge VAT on there fees,
Hope this clarifies about the sale stage fee process AND with the VAT!
If in doubt go straight for a detailed assessment for the judge to decide whether or not the fees are correct and vat which they are charging!
Also if you do get a high court bailiff attend your property DO NOT open the door to them, speak to them through your window, as they will try all tactics to try and get into your property, if you don't let them in, then they cannot charge you all the fees in one go! That's my experience!"
I thought I would update some success on my case with dcbl with there fees and reference to the VAT which has been some concern.
DCBL tried adding further sale stage fee to my account, I queried this with them and they told me that even though goods are not removed for sale they can still charge the sale stage fee as per the regulations. I got straight onto a solicitor to confirm this, and this is totally incorrect, so i re-emailed dcbl telling them either to remove that fee as I had spoken to a solicitor regarding this and would take legal action against them if they did not. After a couple of emails back and throw they emailed me back saying that they would remove that fee! So a success of £525 + vat removed (without going for a detailed assessment!)
I had also queried the VAT and they advised that they can charge VAT on the fees, I still was not happy with it and I contacted my local MP
(him being one of the 650 law makers in parliament) here is the response i got back from him:
"In essence, the law says debtors pay the statutory enforcement fees, but the supply of services is to the creditor. A VAT registered creditor reclaims the VAT, otherwise the VAT is a disbursement to the creditor and the debtor pays it.
‘Judgment debtors pay the cost of sheriffs’ enforcement fees, the supplies are always to the creditors. VAT invoices for the services must be addressed and sent to the creditors. Any documents issued to debtors should make it clear that they are not VAT invoices.’
*****Thus VAT is only payable by debtors (you) when the creditor is NOT VAT registered*********
Otherwise creditors reclaim the VAT as input tax.
You can find out whether a creditor is VAT registered by searching online (https://vat-search.co.uk/).
In my case the creditor is VAT registered and DCBL are incorrect on saying that they can charge VAT!
If the company is NOT VAT registered then they can charge VAT on there fees,
Hope this clarifies about the sale stage fee process AND with the VAT!
If in doubt go straight for a detailed assessment for the judge to decide whether or not the fees are correct and vat which they are charging!
Also if you do get a high court bailiff attend your property DO NOT open the door to them, speak to them through your window, as they will try all tactics to try and get into your property, if you don't let them in, then they cannot charge you all the fees in one go! That's my experience!"
Re: DCBL High court enforcement fees
Your MP sounds like he is unfamiliar with recent developments in the High Court on the matter of VAT on High Court fees.
The sale stage fee is easy to recover of the bailiff did not give an inventory.
The 2nd enforcement stage fee is recoverable if the amount outstanding was taken on the first attendance.
The only notice you need to give the bailiff is a request for a statement of account and state that you intend to apply for a detailed assessment.
Watch all the fees and VAT disappear in a flash.
The sale stage fee is easy to recover of the bailiff did not give an inventory.
The 2nd enforcement stage fee is recoverable if the amount outstanding was taken on the first attendance.
The only notice you need to give the bailiff is a request for a statement of account and state that you intend to apply for a detailed assessment.
Watch all the fees and VAT disappear in a flash.
Re: DCBL High court enforcement fees
Hi Zeke
The bailiff did do a draft of an inventory, but no value of anything on the form and most of it you cannot read his writing, in my case I made a payment on the day (dcbl said I refused) but i did not and that the EA gave me 2 options, either pay or he would remove my goods, thats why i paid him and then paid instalments after contacting dcbl, as the EA said he would get back to me but did not bother, I am still awaiting the 2nd fee to be removed of £495.00 from my account along with the VAT of over £300, I am awaiting further response from dcbl regarding this and have advised I would get a detailed assesmment done if they do not remove these fees, will update further.
The bailiff did do a draft of an inventory, but no value of anything on the form and most of it you cannot read his writing, in my case I made a payment on the day (dcbl said I refused) but i did not and that the EA gave me 2 options, either pay or he would remove my goods, thats why i paid him and then paid instalments after contacting dcbl, as the EA said he would get back to me but did not bother, I am still awaiting the 2nd fee to be removed of £495.00 from my account along with the VAT of over £300, I am awaiting further response from dcbl regarding this and have advised I would get a detailed assesmment done if they do not remove these fees, will update further.
Re: DCBL High court enforcement fees
A draft inventory doesn't count.
It must be an inventory compliant with regulations.
It must be an inventory compliant with regulations.