Public House Specific Bailiff Info

[zeke]

I think most of the standard stuff works but is it possible to put a notice on the property denying Bailiffs access while allowing access to the general public?

You can still use a notice modified to specifically exclude "any person seeking a money transfer or article from anyone at these premises" is denied an implied right of access. That excludes street traders as well as debt collectors and bailiffs. It can be deployed all pubs and trade premises visited by members of the public.

It worked for a pub against a High Court Enforcement Officer whose creditor was billed a large sum for disruption to a public house business and executing a writ against a named Ltd company at a public house premises operated as a sole trader- which meant the contents were protected goods and a slot machine belonging to a third party company renting carpet space for gaming machine use. Damages were awarded because of the notice but the gaming machine owners solicitor claimed on the enforcement agents liability insurance for the replacement machine and onboard cash and interfering with a tamper alarm installed on a gaming machine.

it needs to be pretty easy to use and accessible as quite frequently we first hear of the problem shortly after a Bailiff has called or while he is still on the premises.

With a notice displayed, any person saying he is executing a writ or warrant can be removed from the premises by force and if the bailiff resists then he commits breach of the peace and it is the bailiff the police must arrest. Foulkes -v- Chief Constable of Merseyside Police; CA 9-Jun-1998.

The main issue is that a Public House is regarded by the law as a Commercial operator and Commercial Law assumes that both parties have equal access to information and resources, there are very few of the Consumer protections available in this area. However the Public House operators in fact are almost indistinguishable from "Ordinary People" who have a fundamental belief in honesty, decency and fair-play - Sadly in the case of Pub-Cos this is cynically exploited causing a good deal of misery and wretchedness along the way.

The problem can easily be solved using a notice as described as above.

I accept that bailiff companies and their internet sympathisers disagree, but there is good authority it works. It doesn't matter if the police don't know the law, that only means the police force pays damages and the attending officers need to undergo some retraining in the case of Foulkes v chief constable Merseyside.

I hope we might be able to work together to achieve something here.

Cheers

Chris Lindesay

I'm happy to answer any specific questions, we are well connected with the right people in civil enforcement redress and compliance.

[zeke]

The notice doesn't work on an HMRC agent provided the agent is not a company or contractor, there is case law but I don't want to give that out on the forums because there is evidence the bailiffs companies are unaware of it, and they might try to misconstrue it to apply to companies working for HMRC when it only applies to civil servant enforcement agents.

I would try and get PubWatch to produce a briefing note and a branded notice to be used by member licensees to use at their premises. That way, if a licensee gets trouble then he can throw them out and if the police are called, hand them the riot act on an A4 in vue of the CCTV system.

The following is a notice handed to a police officer used in court fines enforcement preventing the officer pretending not to know the law. http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/fr ... tFines.pdf the result is the police officers quickly leave then the bailiff is thrown off the premises.

I see no reason why a trade premises or public house version cannot be created based on current legislation.

[zeke]

I afraid that is true, bailiffs acting for the landlord do not need a warrant.

It's not a Bailiffs Act as such. The rules on the recovery of rent is regulated by the Distress for Rent Rules 1988. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1988 ... tents/made

And the new Taking Control of Goods regulations coming into force next April 06 has further provisions under Part 7 for commercial rent arrears recovery which places additional responsibilities on landlords - here. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013 ... art/7/made

There are no other regulations to follow apart from revised fee regulations, but there are gremlins and conflicts with the 2003 Courts Act and 1980 Magistrates Courts Act that need to be addressed and parliamentary approval is being sought to repeal a number of sections. The Ministry of Justice thinks Q1 of 2014. They will issue a press release and I can forward it to you as soon as I have it.

[jumunjo]

Hi

apologies for bringing up an old thread, however i see a missing link and wondered if there was ever a notice produced specifically for landlords?

Post#4 "The following is a notice handed to a police officer used in court fines enforcement preventing the officer pretending not to know the law. http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/fr ... tFines.pdf the result is the police officers quickly leave then the bailiff is thrown off the premises."

I think most of the standard stuff works but is it possible to put a notice on the property denying Bailiffs access while allowing access to the general public?

You can still use a notice modified to specifically exclude "any person seeking a money transfer or article from anyone at these premises" is denied an implied right of access. That excludes street traders as well as debt collectors and bailiffs. It can be deployed all pubs and trade premises visited by members of the public.

It worked for a pub against a High Court Enforcement Officer whose creditor was billed a large sum for disruption to a public house business and executing a writ against a named Ltd company at a public house premises operated as a sole trader- which meant the contents were protected goods and a slot machine belonging to a third party company renting carpet space for gaming machine use. Damages were awarded because of the notice but the gaming machine owners solicitor claimed on the enforcement agents liability insurance for the replacement machine and onboard cash and interfering with a tamper alarm installed on a gaming machine.

it needs to be pretty easy to use and accessible as quite frequently we first hear of the problem shortly after a Bailiff has called or while he is still on the premises.

With a notice displayed, any person saying he is executing a writ or warrant can be removed from the premises by force and if the bailiff resists then he commits breach of the peace and it is the bailiff the police must arrest. Foulkes -v- Chief Constable of Merseyside Police; CA 9-Jun-1998.

The main issue is that a Public House is regarded by the law as a Commercial operator and Commercial Law assumes that both parties have equal access to information and resources, there are very few of the Consumer protections available in this area. However the Public House operators in fact are almost indistinguishable from "Ordinary People" who have a fundamental belief in honesty, decency and fair-play - Sadly in the case of Pub-Cos this is cynically exploited causing a good deal of misery and wretchedness along the way.

The problem can easily be solved using a notice as described as above.

I accept that bailiff companies and their internet sympathisers disagree, but there is good authority it works. It doesn't matter if the police don't know the law, that only means the police force pays damages and the attending officers need to undergo some retraining in the case of Foulkes v chief constable Merseyside.

I hope we might be able to work together to achieve something here.

Cheers

Chris Lindesay

I'm happy to answer any specific questions, we are well connected with the right people in civil enforcement redress and compliance.

[matthewrcrisp]

Hi all hoping this post gets to someone !
I have hceo on my back there order is in the pubs name followed by (a company ) this debt is from the old ltd company and I was a director, everything was done legaly when the old ltd company went bust, lease is in new name, council tax, utilities a,d suppliers yet they are still trying to enforce and are com9ng in 2 days ! Help please please please.matt

[John The Baptist]

If the company is still showing as active on the Companies House register, the bailiff has his excuse to turn up. He has the right to visit and inspect the premises for himself. As you may have seen on TV, they normally look through paperwork to see if there are any documents relating to the old company. If they find any, they argue that the company is still trading from the premises and proceed to seize/remove goods.

The bailiff will be looking for items of value within the pub (ie tables, chairs, appliances, kitchen equipment, anything of resalve value). If you can show that the new company either owns the items or that they are included as part of the lease then the bailiff will not be able to take them. Alternatively, if you can show that the old company has gone into liquidation/been dissolved then do so.

I would email both the bailiff company and the creditor asap. I would include as much evidence as you can from your list above (ie copy of lease, council tax, utilities, invoices). If you can show that the previous company has gone into liquidation then include that as well. Ensure that you show the part of the lease that includes any removable items (if this is the case). Produce receipts of any purchases made by the new company. Advise that the new company is now trading from the pub and that all items inside are owned by the new company/leased by the new company (delete as appropriate). State that it is clear as daylight who is operating from the premises and there is no reason to believe the old company are still operating from there. State that if any goods are removed, they will be recovered by way of an application to the court pursuant to Civil Procedure Rule 85 and that your email will be presented to the court on each and every occasion that costs are discussed.

After emailing, I would text the individual bailiff stating that both his company and the creditor have been contacted by yourself and that you advise him to check with his office before continuing with enforcement.